it is the scanner settings that are not right. i don't understand why in your scans i can see the sprockets but let's start with the basics.
1. when scanning, the "shinny" side of the film is down (easier to see on the b&w film) or follow the markings on the scanner
2. the best results are when the film is not touching the glass (not the top, nor the bottom) of the scanner and it is at 1-2mm distance from it
3. start with the most simple scanner settings (colour negative, a billion colours, 1200dpi) and no enhancements. add more sharpness, saturation, colour correction only after.
Thanks. My scanning rig is temporary, and not really the best setup. I thought that I had the shiny side down, but perhaps not. My guess is that my skill in making the necessary adjustments by hand are not good enough yet, I’m not really confident in what I am doing. I have an order in for a frame to hold the negatives.
Perfectlight's suggestions are what I was going to say but...
I see two things here: contrast and white balance. You can go a long way with colors if you try selecting a neutral area and clicking on auto white balance (after the scan, obviously). Contrast S curves also are required. After you get the holder, try this after a 200-300dpi scan, which is truly sufficient for your purposes. Beyond 300dpi from what I read offers little enhancement.
If you have not tried Vuescan software, I highly recommend it. There are plenty of tutorials about it. I have been using it for years.
If you decide to go that route, I am happy to send you my default settings for color 120 and 35mm film.
Honestly, your negatives are good and should translate well after this.
Thank you, Juliette. After the first attempt, I did use the eye-dropper white balance tool and used the film sprockets as my target, that certainly got me closer. I tried contest S-curves, too, but I never hit the sweet spot, I would get frustrated, screw it up even more, than have to reset the whole thing. At the moment, I will need to get a 35, 120 & 4×5 film holder for my scans, and those should be coming soon. They will make the process a bit more steady when scanning. As for the dpi… I have no idea what the output is, i’ll check.
I have not heard of Vuescan, so I will check it out, thank you. I am looking forward to sooting some more color film, with the Petri, which is a strange thing for me, as I am not the biggest fan of color film. I suppose that I’ll have to bite the bullet and get set up for color developing too. So much to do!
ooof... if you do it, I hope it's easier for you than me. For me, color developing was a short-lived practice. I'm too sensitive to the smells. I only developed C41 though. Now I stick to black and white in my darkroom and mostly 35mm, though frankly, medium format is easier. In any case, good luck and keep us posted!
i don't use any third party software, i use the scanner software (epson that is) and i have no problem. the lab where my films are developed have (like most labs) fuji scanners and there is a tinny tinny colour shifting compared with mine but that doesn't bother me.
Since my colour work is limited, at the moment, I am thinking that I will continue to use the lab; they do good work. If I get into more colour rolls, I will develop them myself.
the lab that i'm using is developing the film, i do the scans. why? sometimes the lab doesn't know what i want and that is normal. think about a double exposure that is not perfectly aligned. i can scan that frame whatever way i want compared with the lab. that is all that is for me.
My guess is that I got the film the right way up, since the buildings were all oriented the same way. I don’t seem to have the same flat dynamics with my B&W scans, but the frame will be welcome.
Do you use "levels" and "curves"? Looking at the film and not the image of your scans, the film is a clue - "under-processed" although I am not a digital genius that would be where I start. Not sure if that helps...
Thank you, Simon. Yes I do use levels and curves. I even tried the colour wheels at times. The negatives look to be processed very well, so I have no issues arising there, it’s just me and my lack of experience with scanning colour negatives. I don’t use a flatbed scanner, I shoot with my digital camera and convert the files.
There's a wealth of ideas and support here Darin. I'm no pro when it comes to scanning - I can only add I've always made minor adjustments to contrast and white balance in post processing after using the general settings on Epsons scan software.
Thank you, Lin. I keep looking at Epson flatbed scanners, but I haven’t found one that I wanted to buy. This was just my first attempt at a colour negative, so I am still learning the ropes
I just wanted to say - I love this community! So supportive and helpful. Please try again with the suggestions and share it again. I would love to see the results.
I have good results scanning (and processing) my B&W negatives, but this first time with colour has set me for a loop. I will get better results as I become familiar with the conversion process. My guess is, I am mixing more than one variable, at the wrong time, and in the wrong portions, and that is interfering with my results. Typically, I find that the less I do, the better my results become.
Really interesting. Huge differences. I am on no level a technical wizard, so am suitably impressed with all your effort to figure this stuff out. Thank you, Darin!
Interesting stuff. Do you neutralise the mask colour at the raw negative scan stage? Colour balancing -wise I usually adjust each of the separate rgb channels until it looks about right - whether the end result is what one would normally expect from a given emulsion or not is another matter that I'm not always sure about. I just don't do enough colour work to really get to grips with the various types in terms of their unique 'look'. As long as it seems as natural as I can get it, I'm happy enough. I just go with what looks about right each time. When it comes to contrast, I do find I sometimes need to add some at the editing stage to remove that flat appearance. I hope some of this might be of some use. As I say, I'm no expert🙂
I tried many permutations of colour rendering, including the ones that you mentioned. Some approaches were more successful than others. I was never able to get the contrast settled to the point that the flat dynamic range issue disappeared. I do believe that the original scans went through the scanning machine and came out with a bias to the green. I might just need to bite the bullet and buy a few presets.
Well, I still think that the original scans, from the lab, were a bit off, due to the green cast that I saw on most of the frames. I scanned the film myself, and tried to edit them in Lightroom, but the is something that I am missing. What it is, I know not, yet.
I don't know anything about the technical aspects but I came here to say the photo with the broken mirror is SO cool! I really like how that looked.
Thank you, Yule!
it is the scanner settings that are not right. i don't understand why in your scans i can see the sprockets but let's start with the basics.
1. when scanning, the "shinny" side of the film is down (easier to see on the b&w film) or follow the markings on the scanner
2. the best results are when the film is not touching the glass (not the top, nor the bottom) of the scanner and it is at 1-2mm distance from it
3. start with the most simple scanner settings (colour negative, a billion colours, 1200dpi) and no enhancements. add more sharpness, saturation, colour correction only after.
4. scan in tiff format instead of jpg
i know you will get there, wish you all the best!
Thanks. My scanning rig is temporary, and not really the best setup. I thought that I had the shiny side down, but perhaps not. My guess is that my skill in making the necessary adjustments by hand are not good enough yet, I’m not really confident in what I am doing. I have an order in for a frame to hold the negatives.
sounds like that frame is what is missing, you will be surprised
Perfectlight's suggestions are what I was going to say but...
I see two things here: contrast and white balance. You can go a long way with colors if you try selecting a neutral area and clicking on auto white balance (after the scan, obviously). Contrast S curves also are required. After you get the holder, try this after a 200-300dpi scan, which is truly sufficient for your purposes. Beyond 300dpi from what I read offers little enhancement.
If you have not tried Vuescan software, I highly recommend it. There are plenty of tutorials about it. I have been using it for years.
If you decide to go that route, I am happy to send you my default settings for color 120 and 35mm film.
Honestly, your negatives are good and should translate well after this.
Thank you, Juliette. After the first attempt, I did use the eye-dropper white balance tool and used the film sprockets as my target, that certainly got me closer. I tried contest S-curves, too, but I never hit the sweet spot, I would get frustrated, screw it up even more, than have to reset the whole thing. At the moment, I will need to get a 35, 120 & 4×5 film holder for my scans, and those should be coming soon. They will make the process a bit more steady when scanning. As for the dpi… I have no idea what the output is, i’ll check.
I have not heard of Vuescan, so I will check it out, thank you. I am looking forward to sooting some more color film, with the Petri, which is a strange thing for me, as I am not the biggest fan of color film. I suppose that I’ll have to bite the bullet and get set up for color developing too. So much to do!
ooof... if you do it, I hope it's easier for you than me. For me, color developing was a short-lived practice. I'm too sensitive to the smells. I only developed C41 though. Now I stick to black and white in my darkroom and mostly 35mm, though frankly, medium format is easier. In any case, good luck and keep us posted!
i don't use any third party software, i use the scanner software (epson that is) and i have no problem. the lab where my films are developed have (like most labs) fuji scanners and there is a tinny tinny colour shifting compared with mine but that doesn't bother me.
Since my colour work is limited, at the moment, I am thinking that I will continue to use the lab; they do good work. If I get into more colour rolls, I will develop them myself.
the lab that i'm using is developing the film, i do the scans. why? sometimes the lab doesn't know what i want and that is normal. think about a double exposure that is not perfectly aligned. i can scan that frame whatever way i want compared with the lab. that is all that is for me.
My guess is that I got the film the right way up, since the buildings were all oriented the same way. I don’t seem to have the same flat dynamics with my B&W scans, but the frame will be welcome.
Do you use "levels" and "curves"? Looking at the film and not the image of your scans, the film is a clue - "under-processed" although I am not a digital genius that would be where I start. Not sure if that helps...
Thank you, Simon. Yes I do use levels and curves. I even tried the colour wheels at times. The negatives look to be processed very well, so I have no issues arising there, it’s just me and my lack of experience with scanning colour negatives. I don’t use a flatbed scanner, I shoot with my digital camera and convert the files.
Same here!!!
As you know!!
There's a wealth of ideas and support here Darin. I'm no pro when it comes to scanning - I can only add I've always made minor adjustments to contrast and white balance in post processing after using the general settings on Epsons scan software.
Thank you, Lin. I keep looking at Epson flatbed scanners, but I haven’t found one that I wanted to buy. This was just my first attempt at a colour negative, so I am still learning the ropes
I just wanted to say - I love this community! So supportive and helpful. Please try again with the suggestions and share it again. I would love to see the results.
Absolutely, I will. I will get better at converting color negatives and I will share them, especially when I have fun cameras to spot with.
thank goodness you have that expired film as a sort of floating pointless reference .. eh 💋
Floating pointlessly, is my North Star for work and life.
You have ‘comorbid issues’ - all easily solved
The ‘green cast is a separate / lab / lack of Quality Control
(but you KNOW.. you have very decent negs - corrects ?)
Your Scanning is ‘Deep Flawed .. light bouncing & glare - bulging film surface ?
If neccessary, ‘TAPE the negs flat as possible to the carrier or mount
The Lab’s Scanner versus Yours ? A fair fight ?
This for ‘test shots ? I don’t see a ‘winner emerging .. you ?
or is it .. ‘The Bear is Eating You !
I have good results scanning (and processing) my B&W negatives, but this first time with colour has set me for a loop. I will get better results as I become familiar with the conversion process. My guess is, I am mixing more than one variable, at the wrong time, and in the wrong portions, and that is interfering with my results. Typically, I find that the less I do, the better my results become.
It’s hell sometimes - so play some funky music white boy ..
put the puzzle away for a day .. It’s certain to reveal themselves ..
oh man but ain’t you in a fix ! You got a full alarm fire goin.. 🦎🏴☠️🧯
Someone hose me down!
I've decided to comment because I like the mirror photo very much.
That is the consensus shot. My best selfie, ever.
Really interesting. Huge differences. I am on no level a technical wizard, so am suitably impressed with all your effort to figure this stuff out. Thank you, Darin!
Thank you, Søren.
Interesting stuff. Do you neutralise the mask colour at the raw negative scan stage? Colour balancing -wise I usually adjust each of the separate rgb channels until it looks about right - whether the end result is what one would normally expect from a given emulsion or not is another matter that I'm not always sure about. I just don't do enough colour work to really get to grips with the various types in terms of their unique 'look'. As long as it seems as natural as I can get it, I'm happy enough. I just go with what looks about right each time. When it comes to contrast, I do find I sometimes need to add some at the editing stage to remove that flat appearance. I hope some of this might be of some use. As I say, I'm no expert🙂
I tried many permutations of colour rendering, including the ones that you mentioned. Some approaches were more successful than others. I was never able to get the contrast settled to the point that the flat dynamic range issue disappeared. I do believe that the original scans went through the scanning machine and came out with a bias to the green. I might just need to bite the bullet and buy a few presets.
Fun times ahead. I look forward to seeing how it all goes.
As am I.
Indeed, the broken mirror is classic.
Photographer, heal thyself!
The best selfie that I have ever taken.
Is the lesson here "Don't mess with it?" In every case the raw seems better than the cooked.
Well, I still think that the original scans, from the lab, were a bit off, due to the green cast that I saw on most of the frames. I scanned the film myself, and tried to edit them in Lightroom, but the is something that I am missing. What it is, I know not, yet.